May 2025 - Ns.se - lists.iis.se

Re: DNS extended

by Patrik Fältström

On 14 May 2025, at 10:08, Johan Stenstam via Ns.se wrote: > Very easy to register: no. > > Been there, done that, carry the scars. In *theory* you’re absolutely correct, but in practice… well you know the rest. What we have is a process that "only" require expert review. Standard action is not needed (compared to many other IANA parameters). See https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6895.html#page-14 Sure, that can be hard, but...YMMV. From my point of view the hard part is not to get the RR Type registered, but used. See URI which was my last one. Patrik

May 14, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Lars-Johan Liman

Hi Johan! OK, I stand corrected. Thanks for putting the me straight. Then maybe the good idea we (the IETF) had at the time – to make it simple to register new RR types – has fallen into implementation problems. Maybe it should be looked into. Out of curiosity: the RR type(s) you wanted to register – did they warrant "special processing" in the DNS servers? I.e., did they require altereted/new code paths in the servers, or were they simple data-carrying records to just be picked up from a shelf and shipped to the client? I guess my question is: do you see a difference between the two categories of records in how difficult it is to get a requst processed? Cheers, /Liman johan.stenstam(a)internetstiftelsen.se 2025-05-14 08:08 [+0000]: > Liman, >> And mind you: new record types are dirt cheap, and very easy to > create and register. 😉 > Umm… no. Cheap: yes. Easy to create: well, that obviously depends. > Very easy to register: no. > Been there, done that, carry the scars. In *theory* you’re absolutely > correct, but in practice… well you know the rest. > Johan

May 14, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Johan Stenstam

Liman, > And mind you: new record types are dirt cheap, and very easy to create and register. 😉 Umm… no. Cheap: yes. Easy to create: well, that obviously depends. Very easy to register: no. Been there, done that, carry the scars. In *theory* you’re absolutely correct, but in practice… well you know the rest. Johan

May 14, 2025

DNS day September 10th 2025

by Kristian Ørmen

Please block your calendars for our next meeting. September 10th 10:00 – 19:30 with lunch and a light AW Internetstiftelsen Hammarby Kaj 10D 120 07 Stockholm Agenda: 10:00 – 12:00 Talks 12:00 – 13:00 Lunch 13:00 – 15:00 Talks 15:30 – 15:30 Fika 16:00 – 17:30 Talks 17:30 – 19:30 AW Participation is free. We will follow up with a sign-up link at a later point. We will of course talk about what happens at the registry, IETF, zonemaster, DNS Tapir etc. Please contact me if you would like to contribute with a presentation as well. -- Kristian Ørmen Internetstiftelsen +46 765607953 https://internetstiftelsen.se<https://internetstiftelsen.se/> Besöksadress: Hammarby Kaj 10D, Stockholm Postadress: Box 92073, 120 07 Stockholm

May 13, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Lars-Johan Liman

Not questioning the truth your your story ... but sorry to hear that. 😞 But in this case ... oej(a)edvina.net 2025-05-09 08:40 [+0200]: > ... ... > This week someone opened an issue in our tracker and suggest that we > implement something using DNS TXT records… ... TXT records will not be implemented either. Not in the way you (he/she) seem to suggest them to be used. 🤷‍♂️ Cheers, /Liman

May 10, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Patrik Fältström

Blush... Patrik P.S. That said, you should know how we had to fight because too many said "we can just use TXT, and btw, TXT is the only you can use due to <drum roll> java script and php". On 9 May 2025, at 15:01, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: > Yes, that is a good document. You don't even need to read it to know that. You can deduce it from the list of authors ... 😉 > > Cheers, > /Liman > > > > paf(a)frobbit.se 2025-05-09 09:17 [+0200]: >> ... ... >> Let me recommend RFC 5507 from IAB with me and Austein as authors: > >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5507> > >> 5507 Design Choices When Expanding the DNS. IAB, P. Faltstrom, Ed., R. >> Austein, Ed., P. Koch, Ed.. April 2009. (Format: TXT, HTML) (Status: >> INFORMATIONAL) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC5507) > >> Patrik

May 9, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Lars-Johan Liman

[Ah. To paraphrase: "two countries separated by a common language history." 😉 I need to spend more time in Denmark to improve on my Danish. I'm ashamed that I struggle with spoken Danish. Written is usually OK. 😞] Hi Jacob! Yes, I agree: use label selctors (_foo) instead of record type selectors is an alternative approach that makes the abuse slightly easier to live with, but it's still ... less than elegant, IMHO. "That's not how the DNS was designed." And you are probably quite right about the UI panels. Cheers, /Liman ns.se(a)lists.iis.se 2025-05-09 09:31 [+0200]: > "Lars-Johan Liman via Ns.se" <ns.se(a)lists.iis.se> writes: >> [Since others switched to English, I will too.] > [We did because Emil and I do not write well in Swedish and you guys > tend to prefer English over Danish when we meet in person. I don't mind > reading Swedish.] >> For anyone who thinks that using TXT records to solve your custom >> problem is a quick and simple solution, think again. Or contact me, and >> I'll drag you out of that misconception ... And mind you: new record >> types are dirt cheap, and very easy to create and register. 😉 > I've seen my fair share of TXT record abuse as well, but at least modern > TXT record abuse is limited to more specific label names like '_dmarc', > 'someselector._domainkey' and similar. > I think one reason TXT records are often abused is that DNS control > panels are often slow to adopt new record types, and then the easy way > out is to just use a TXT record. > Best regards, > Jacob

May 9, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Lars-Johan Liman

Yes, that is a good document. You don't even need to read it to know that. You can deduce it from the list of authors ... 😉 Cheers, /Liman paf(a)frobbit.se 2025-05-09 09:17 [+0200]: > ... ... > Let me recommend RFC 5507 from IAB with me and Austein as authors: > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5507> > 5507 Design Choices When Expanding the DNS. IAB, P. Faltstrom, Ed., R. > Austein, Ed., P. Koch, Ed.. April 2009. (Format: TXT, HTML) (Status: > INFORMATIONAL) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC5507) > Patrik

May 9, 2025

Re: DNS extended

by Lars-Johan Liman

Yes, indeed. It was a sad time in the history of the IETF. Fortunately the IETF seems to have sobered up from that specific ... lapse. It's much harder to get approval for protocol-specific use of TXT records these days. The IESG is more on its toes, and there is (again) a DNS Directorate. Cheers, /Liman mats.dufberg(a)internetstiftelsen.se 2025-05-09 06:39 [+0000]: > It is interesting to note that there is a dedicated RR type for the > SPF function, SPF RR type, but that is deprecated. Instead TXT RR type > should be used. > It is kind of backwards. > Fighting the use of TXT records for various function would be a > life-time struggle. > Mats > --- > Mats Dufberg > DNS Specialist, IIS > Mobile: +46 73 065 3899<tel:+46%2073%20065%203899> > https://www.iis.se/en/<http://www.iis.se/en> > 9 maj 2025 kl. 08:26 skrev Lars-Johan Liman via Ns.se > <ns.se(a)lists.iis.se>: > [Since others switched to English, I will too.] > Hi Anne-Marie! > I too was unaware of any conventions for doing this in the _DNS_, but I > _am_ aware of the prolific abuse of TXT records for various and sundry > kitchen-sink-like purposes, so your words didn't surprise me at all. > If you _do_ find signs of this type of data being put into the DNS, > please share them with me. > For anyone who thinks that using TXT records to solve your custom > problem is a quick and simple solution, think again. Or contact me, > and > I'll drag you out of that misconception ... And mind you: new record > types are dirt cheap, and very easy to create and register. 😉 > Cheers, > /Liman > #---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # Lars-Johan Liman, M.Sc. ! E-mail: liman(a)netnod.se > # Senior Systems Specialist ! Tel: +46 8 - 562 860 12 > # Netnod AB, Stockholm ! http://www.netnod.se/ > #---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ns.se(a)lists.iis.se 2025-05-08 20:36 [+0200]: > Hej, > Jag har en fråga till alla DNS-gurus i världen. Det har ju dykt upp en > del saker som man kan stoppa in i dns, som security.txt och > robots.txt. Det senaste jag hör de var om llm.txt. Finns det och hur > övertygar man en AI om att respektera respektive kringgå en sådan? Hur > många txt finns det i världen. Liman och andra, som försvarat dns från > onödig börda genom åren, hur ser ni på det? > Många hälsningar, > Anne-Marie > ________________________ > Anne-Marie Eklund Löwinder > Amelsec AB > Hägervägen 27, 122 39 Enskede > +46 734315310 > @amelsec.bsky.social

May 9, 2025

Fwd: [dns-operations] OARC 45 Call for Contributions

by Jerry Lundström

FYI / TL;DR The DNS-OARC workshop is coming to Stockholm, Sweden - for the first time ever! :) Save the date! Cheers, Jerry -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [dns-operations] OARC 45 Call for Contributions Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 17:21:28 +0100 From: Cathy Almond <cathya(a)isc.org> To: dns-operations(a)lists.dns-oarc.net The OARC 45 workshop Call for Contributions is now open! This workshop will be a hybrid event. Date - 7-8 October 2025 Location - Stockholm, Sweden Time - Approx 10:00 CEST (08:00 UTC) - 17:00 CEST (15:00 UTC) Adjacent to Netnod Tech Meeting 2025 (9 October 2025) (https://www.netnod.se/netnod-tech-meeting-2025) Deadline for Submissions - 2025-07-29 23:59 UTC https://indico.dns-oarc.net/event/55/abstracts/ All DNS-related subjects and discussion topics are welcome although we're particularly keen to hear more about operational and security related experiences, best practices and practical advice; both for newcomers to the DNS arena and those who have been around for longer who want to learn more about new features and opportunities to improve resilience, security and privacy. (These topics we think will complement the usual high-quality data-based research submissions we always hope to receive!) If you have something interesting to share with the community that lies outside of the focus above, please don't be put off - if it's good, we'll be happy to include it. If you'd like to offer a talk, but are not quite sure what to pick, here's a non-exhaustive list of ideas: 1. Operations & Deployment Configuration management, deployment processes, and interoperability experiences. Tools, tips, and making effective use of DNS software features. 2. Performance, Resilience & Scaling Provisioning, load-balancing, and planning for resilience. DNS performance management, efficiency improvements, and metrics. Monitoring infrastructure: log pipelines, analytics, and anomaly detection. 3. Security, Privacy & Policy DoS attacks, DNS abuse, DNSSEC signing and validation. Privacy considerations, for example: encrypted transport, qname minimization, data anonymization. Relevant global and regional policies, legislation, and compliance. 4. Research & Innovation Data-driven testing, measurement, and analysis. New protocols, protocol extensions, and next-generation namespace management. 5. Lessons & Learnings Outage experiences, recovery stories, and cautionary tales For further details please see https://www.dns-oarc.net/oarc45 Cathy Almond, for the DNS-OARC Programme Committee _______________________________________________ dns-operations mailing list dns-operations(a)lists.dns-oarc.net https://lists.dns-oarc.net/mailman/listinfo/dns-operations

May 9, 2025